Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?

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Unregistered(d)	Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/20/07 09:31:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Would not an all powerful, merciful God remove them from His creation? Perhaps, but maybe rather these things are part of His design and creation. Without loss there can be no gain. The word would be meaningless. Without 'evil' there would be no perception or experience of 'good'. If everyone on earth were 'beautiful', no one would be. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Top Gun 101	Re: Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?	#1	[-]
Posts: 107 (07/20/07 10:51:13) Plebian Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Suppose you never saw/felt evil, pain or suffering, then what is good, joy & bliss? As much as I hate to use numbers, if your low-point was a -100 & your high point 100, then it feels twice as good as thought the worst you ever felt was a zero (neutral). At least that's how I see it.
mcguppy	Re: Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?	#2	[-]
Posts: 550 (07/20/07 11:22:05) Hardcase Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Try this out. www.unm.edu/~humanism/socvsjes.htm 1)Garland of Chaos is finally defeated 2)The Emperor of Pandaemonium is finally defeated 3)I would have tried to deafeat it but it was in Japanese
MLEVIN1220	Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?	#3	[-]
Posts: 317 (07/20/07 12:11:19) Attorney General Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Would not an all powerful, merciful God remove them from His creation? if they are removed than you don't have a choice not to do bad things. If all thefts were prevented then all thieves and those who were able to fight their impulse to steal would be stripped of their free will. If all rapes were prevented then all the rapists and those who were able to fight their impulse to steal would be stripped of their free will. If all murders were prevented then ... If all cheating were prevented then ...
Unregistered(d)	I hear	#4	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/22/07 21:20:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The faint sound of thumping in the background.
mcguppy	Re: I hear	#5	[-]
Posts: 550 (07/22/07 22:14:28) Hardcase Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You're only hearing that because you forgot to let them out of the trunk. 1)Garland of Chaos is finally defeated 2)The Emperor of Pandaemonium is finally defeated 3)I would have tried to deafeat it but it was in Japanese
plaguebot	Well...	#6	[-]
Posts: 80 (07/23/07 01:37:07) Unindicted Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	why would a God allow himself to be humiliated and crucified?
Manruss	Re: Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?	#7	[-]
Posts: 1168 (07/23/07 15:25:24) Unindicted Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Leibniz answered the Problem of the Three Universals (how can there be evil in the world if God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good?) by saying that while God did not create a world that was perfect, he did create the one which was the best of all the ones possible and for him to omit suffering would necessitate that he leave out perseverance or forgiveness or other positive experiences which outweigh the negative of suffering. Of course, I suppose one can always come back by arguing that if God is all-powerful, then he should have been able to come up with a way to eliminate suffering and somehow for humans to have those positive experiences in some other fashion than overcoming misery. ----------------------- Visit my weblog!
The Orange Duke	Re: Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?	#8	[-]
Posts: 138 (07/23/07 16:20:14) Unindicted Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Or to put it simply, either gOd is all powerful or hes not. If he is there need be no suffering and thus he must want suffering for its own sake. Clearly, if there is a gOd, hes a sadist. ----------------------------------- Strange online admissions: Logically, that would mean that all religion is false - Nimbo What They Are Saying About OD I was as forthright as I could be without calling you a full-fledged idiot. - Lemony Reincarnated
Unregistered(d)	if there is a gOd	#9	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/24/07 14:36:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Or to put it simply, either gOd is all powerful or hes not. If he is there need be no suffering and thus he must want suffering for its own sake. Clearly, if there is a gOd, hes a sadist. " Perhaps you'd like to read something by Alan Watts, who explained duality about as well as anybody. Suffering needs to exists so joy can exist. The universe we live in requires this formation, and the God that rules this universe wants it that way. I don't think it makes Him a sadist. As a totality, the Ying and Yang thing makes life interesting.
jimmiller46	Re: if there is a gOd	#10	[-]
Posts: 680 (07/24/07 14:52:13) Syndicalist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As argued in the other thread on the big bang, maybe God just started things off and then stood aside. He may be all powerful but he may have chosen to let people exercise their free will,leading to the mess the world is in and has always been in.
The Orange Duke	Re: if there is a gOd	#11	[-]
Posts: 138 (07/24/07 16:45:53) Unindicted Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Suffering needs to exists so joy can exist. The universe we live in requires this formation, and the God that rules this universe wants it that way. I don't think it makes Him a sadist. As a totality, the Ying and Yang thing makes life interesting. So then gOd isn't all powerful then, see why theistic arguments refute themselves? but he may have chosen to let people exercise their free will,leading to the mess the world is in and has always been in. Given the awful things that happen to people in nature, he's still a sadist. ----------------------------------- Strange online admissions: Logically, that would mean that all religion is false - Nimbo What They Are Saying About OD I was as forthright as I could be without calling you a full-fledged idiot. - Lemony Reincarnated
Unregistered(d)	gOd isn't all powerful then	#12	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/24/07 21:53:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Suffering needs to exists so joy can exist. The universe we live in requires this formation, and the God that rules this universe wants it that way. I don't think it makes Him a sadist. As a totality, the Ying and Yang thing makes life interesting." "So then gOd isn't all powerful then, see why theistic arguments refute themselves?" ______________________________________________ I don't see the contradiction there that you apparently do. God could be all powerful, and also permit suffering to exist. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. We live in an existence based on relativity and comparison. For example, tan is a light color, correct? But if you were to take away all the dark colors and were only able to compare tan to other light shades like mint or azure, it wouldn't be a dark color anymore. One end of the scale cannot exist or even be described without the other end. Without suffering there would be no such thing as joy. Certainly many people do not underdstand this, nut it is true.
Unregistered(d)	Time Stands Still For Islam	#13	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/24/07 22:42:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Almost nobody in the West wants to understand that Islam's problems are structural. Contemporary Islam hardly exists. Islam stopped thinking in the year 900 and has stood still for more than a thousand years. " Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Somali-Dutch moderate-conservative feminist, former Dutch parliamentarian, and former-Muslim-turned-atheist facing death threats for her views about Islam ____________________________________________ Comments anyone?
Unregistered(d)	Posted here by mistake - so sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	#14	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/24/07 22:49:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Almost nobody in the West wants to understand that Islam's problems are structural. Contemporary Islam hardly exists. Islam stopped thinking in the year 900 and has stood still for more than a thousand years. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Somali-Dutch moderate-conservative feminist, former Dutch parliamentarian, and former-Muslim-turned-atheist facing death threats for her views about Islam POSTED IN THE WRONG PLACE AND DON"T KNOW HOW TO DELETE IT. SORRY.
The Orange Duke	Re: gOd isn't all powerful then	#15	[-]
Posts: 138 (07/26/07 19:25:46) Unindicted Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	compare tan to other light shades like mint or azure, it wouldn't be a dark color anymore. Which means gOd is not all powerful. All powerful is an all or nothing thing, either gOd can make joy without suffering, in which case hE is all powerful but also a @#%$, or he can't in which case hE ain't all powerful. It's really simple. ----------------------------------- Strange online admissions: Logically, that would mean that all religion is false - Nimbo What They Are Saying About OD I was as forthright as I could be without calling you a full-fledged idiot. - Lemony Reincarnated
N Sengupta	Re: gOd isn't all powerful then	#16	[-]
Posts: 7282 (07/26/07 22:05:25) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Everyone, The joy can only exist in the context of suffering is interesting and often used. I would perhaps buy into it if the suffering and joy were in a micro-environment. But they aren't. There are many who suffer when others aren't and vice versa. Narayan Great Gatsbys Antiques New Frontiers International web development and custom software * Paradise Concepts Water Gardens Health Insurance Atlanta * Allgood Pest Control * Allgood Pest Control - Jacksonville * Allgood Pest Control Georgia Cayman Villas * The 5 Star General - History and Wargames * Narayan's Travel 101 * National Museum of Commercial Aviation * Buy Well, Inc. * Smyrna BNI * Vinings Insurance* JP's Panzers History and Wargames
Unregistered(d)	gOd is not all powe	#17	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/26/07 22:18:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Which means gOd is not all powerful. All powerful is an all or nothing thing, either gOd can make joy without suffering, in which case hE is all powerful but also a @#%$, or he can't in which case hE ain't all powerful. It's really simple." Apparently too simple for you. If everyone experienced joy all the time, no one would know what it was. This isn't rocket science, but I suppose it may qualify as an insight to some.
MikeBroy	Re: gOd is not all powe	#18	[-]
Posts: 2788 (07/26/07 22:21:55) Southern Culture on the Skids Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care
Unregistered(d)	the context of suffering	#19	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/26/07 22:30:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The joy can only exist in the context of suffering is interesting and often used. I would perhaps buy into it if the suffering and joy were in a micro-environment. But they aren't. There are many who suffer when others aren't and vice versa." Leaving aside for the moment the ying yang of suffering/joy, just consider that there always has been suffering on this earth and there probably always will be. Human beings have not evolved to the point where they can overcome or remove the root causes of suffering, and possibly never will. For all we know there is a God who designed this existence in just this way for a purpose that is simply beyond human comprehension. The best we can do is try to form a life of integrity, compassion and adventure. But the presence of suffering does not necessarily impact the existence of God one whit.
ExplodingToad	Re: the context of suffering	#20	[-]
Posts: 287 (08/05/07 14:13:55) NASCAR househusband Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It seems to me that we learn our lessons best the hard way. We remember the pain and try to avoid further suffering by trying things differently. If everything was pain-free and without consequence what incentive would we have to learn and grow?

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Why Does God Permit Evil, Pain and Suffering?

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