Not 2 Serious finally answered, wrong.

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paxpatriot	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#21	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:18:16) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"And you don't think that playing fair is a civic virtue and a duty to other people?" I do not see how allowing people to make choices (and this includes non athletes) violates fair play. As noted, no one said that voluntary organizations could not make rules against steroids. Using Government regulation o deny people choices is, on the other hands, tyranny. You eed to learn what Liberty is.
MorgaineA77	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#22	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/17/07 07:26:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* You are now saying that being stupid enough to take something that shrivels your testicles and causes you to go into rages, is being adult. " Christ that is a weak strawman. Are you that stupid? Not a strawman and I am not stupid at all. I see through your 'it doesn't affect anyone' arguement. *Quote:* I am saying that an adult citizen should have the right to make decisions about their own body, even stupid decisions, and that being entrusted with such decisions is the mark of an adult rather than a child. And I agree. as long as those decisions aren't detrimental to someone else *Quote:* A child cannot makebinding decisions. They cannot be held to contracts, or held respronsable in most cases for their decisions. Grow up and stop the strawmen The thing about contracts is the strawman. *Quote:* ""I am an adult. I do not cheat in a way that makes others either quit or hurt themselves to keep up. Those may techincally be choices, but they are not options. " *************** No, rather you choose to set rules that deny others the choice to seek things they may like. I don't think people should be allowed to cheat, you think that makes me a child. Quote: Now, if this was a voluntary agreement, then no worries. But give it the force of law, and it is tyranny. If taking steriods is required to compete, as it is fast becoming, that is a tyranny. Quote: No, you are a fascist for your earlier claim that drinking anywhere except home is not acceptable. Since you know I was talking about driving while drinking you are being totally dishonest in your arguement. But I guess dishonesty is your right. Quote: "Ah, now you are going to be dishonest enough to try to make it look like I said you shouldn't drink. " Here you claim I am lying, Could you please cut and paster where I said you said I should not drink? Either this is another strawmen (any straw left there, Morgaine?) or else you have utterly misunderstood wht I am saying. See above. Your antics are childish. I don't expect that you will stop as it seems to be your only tool. Quote: Choosing to drivee drunk is to choose to have a high chance of injuring someone through your incapacity. We are responable for the predictable outcomes of our actions. Which is exactly what I have been saying. Taking steroid has the predictable outcome of giving you unfair and dishonest advantage over your competitors, that is the only reason people take them (unless they are being treated for a medical condition, but you knew I wasn't talking about that) Quote: So that choice is immoral, and rightly regulated. Taking steriods to cheat is immoral and the use of steriods for medical reasons is rightly regulated. Quote: In a way that taking steroid, with their side effects and all, is not. It most certainly is. Quote: Or has Lance Armstrong been going into rages? I don't know, I dont' hang out with him and he is under a doctor's care as I was when I was given them for a sunburn. Love how you pretend that is the same thing. << Prev Topic \| Next Topic >> "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov *************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
paxpatriot	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#23	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:26:37) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Morg was asked how taing steroids if everyone coul dis cheating... She answered "Because taking it shrivels the tesicles and causes rages that hurt the take and others" Now, while such side effects (not universal or perhaps even common..) are bad- how is it cheating? Your answer is non-responsive
Unregistered(d)	everyone take steroids	#24	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/17/07 07:31:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Yes, take the steroids, let everyone take them. If you want to get into competative sports, DO IT. Make it legal, so there is no cheating. Everyont does it." What an assinine proposal. Please, tell us how it feels to go off the deep end. Steroids have a provable negative effect on an individuals physical and mental health. People have committed suicide due to the effect steroid use has had on them. And you want it to be required for an athlete to use steroids in order to stay competitive within their sport. You are on the verge of making yourself a laughingstock.
MorgaineA77	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#25	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/17/07 07:44:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I won't say much, because EF said it best however, briefly taking steriods is cheating, not because they hurt the person taking them, but because it given unfair advantage to them, much like purposely sticking an elbow in the rib of an opponent when the ref isn't looking. The only options the others have is to give up or to also harm their bodies, your yammering that those are real choices that adults should accept is, well EF said it best. "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
paxpatriot	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#26	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:45:16) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The thing about contracts is the strawman." Um, a strawman is misrepresnting your position. The claim I made is, that the thing seperating adults from children is the power to make decisions and be held accountable for them. The fact that Children can not enter binding contracts was a supporting claim I made. In no way did I represent it as yours. Morg, want a link to a website that explains such things? Morg said: "You are now saying that being stupid enough to take something that shrivels your testicles and causes you to go into rages, is being adult." I answered: Christ that is a weak strawman. Are you that stupid? Morg answers (kinda) Not a strawman and I am not stupid at all. I see through your 'it doesn't affect anyone' arguement. My Answer- Morg, I no were made such an assertion. I have explained in depth my point. So yes, Morg, it IS a strawman. You misrepresent my position in oder for you to attack what you construct-indstead of what I said. Dumb. Morg said: "If taking steriods is required to compete, as it is fast becoming, that is a tyranny. " OK, wow. Who is advocating ANYONE be forced to take steroids? No one. Here we have another strawman, and a weak and stinky one. One would note steroids are, status quo, illegal and banned. Yet Morg says they are fast becoming mandatory. Who is making such a mandate? No one. Morg Said "I don't think people should be allowed to cheat, you think that makes me a child. " I answer: Strawman again. Morg, whats the matter-nothing to say in answer to the real arguments? Where do I advocate allowing anyone to cheat? In fact, I several times said that, even with steoroids completely legal, a porting group could decide to bar them-and enforce that ban contractually. I never did, nor would I, advocate violating a contract. Adults should have the power to make decisions effecting their bodies. Children do not. A ban on steroids treats us all as children. I said no, you are a fascist for your earlier claim that drinking anywhere except home is not acceptable. Morg answers "Since you know I was talking about driving while drinking you are being totally dishonest in your arguement. But I guess dishonesty is your right. " 1) I know your talking about runken driving-how? You said Drinking is o if I do it in my house. Saying people can only drink in their oewn homes is, in fact, fascistic. 2) Pointing out the problem with your advocacy is not dishonest. The claim it is is a pointless and hollow personal attack. Morg sad "Ah, now you are going to be dishonest enough to try to make it look like I said you shouldn't drink. " I replied: Here you claim I am lying, Could you please cut and paster where I said you said I should not drink? Either this is another strawmen (any straw left there, Morgaine?) or else you have utterly misunderstood wht I am saying. Morg answers: "See above. Your antics are childish. I don't expect that you will stop as it seems to be your only tool. " Well, lets see. 1) you claimed I was lying. I asked you to provide a c and p supporting your claim I was lying. You failed to, your original claim I was lying is now refuted. 2) More personal attacks. Strawmane and insults, all you have? Two issues here-legality, and use in sports/cheating. For legality, the government has no place regulating what we put into or bodies except for purity and honest advertising. That some people might abuse something is not warrant to deny all of us free choice. It is a little thing called-Liberty. As to the cheating issue- If steroid use is allowed, using steroids is not cheating. This would be a decision of the governing board of athletic organizations, not government. If steroid use is banned, then using steroids would be cheating and subject to fair sanction, as provided in a freely entered into contract.
paxpatriot	Re: everyone take steroids	#27	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:46:47) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Steroids have a provable negative effect on an individuals physical and mental health." So do sitcoms. Being an adult means making choices, even potentially bad ones.
paxpatriot	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#28	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:48:00) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"eople have committed suicide due to the effect steroid use has had on them. " Wow, did that come through on the Ouija board?
paxpatriot	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#29	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:49:39) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I can see wy none did not want to answer-your not listening, and throwing out all kinds of insults and fallacies instead of real argumens. For instance, this tautology... Why are steroids bad? Because using them is cheating. Why is using them cheating? Because they are bad.
paxpatriot	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#30	[-]
Posts: 1598 (07/17/07 07:51:57) Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Morg, some companies have ordered their employees not to smoke-even at home, on their own time. Is that acceptable to you?
MorgaineA77	Re: everyone take steroids	#31	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/17/07 08:02:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* "Steroids have a provable negative effect on an individuals physical and mental health." ******************* So do sitcoms. Being an adult means making choices, even potentially bad ones. The watching of sitcoms does not affect other adults. Taking steroids does. You ignore this fact by pretending it isn't true. I didn't read the rest as your arguements are based on two false premises. "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov *************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
Unregistered(d)	bad choices	#32	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/17/07 08:04:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"So do sitcoms. Being an adult means making choices, even potentially bad ones." The issue I am addressing is the silly suggestion that if athletes want to stay competitive they should willingly take steroids. In other words, because someone has gained an advantage within the contest by doing harm to themselves, you as an athlete should be required (in order to stay competitive) to do harm to yourself also. That is insane.
MorgaineA77	Re: Question Not 2 Serious doesn't want to answer, apparentl	#33	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/17/07 08:05:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* For instance, this tautology... Why are steroids bad? Because using them is cheating. Why is using them cheating? Because they are bad. That is a lie, becaue that is not what I said. I said they are cheating because they give unfair advantage that has nothing to do with talent or hard work. Disagree if you like, but don't be dishonest about what I said. *Quote:* Morg, some companies have ordered their employees not to smoke-even at home, on their own time. Is that acceptable to you? Now, that is a strawman. However, according to Libertarian philosophy, the companies have the right to make any rules they want because the employees have the ability to get other jobs. People who fight for the right to take steriods to enhance preformance also say that the companies can make any rule they want. It was not only a strawman, it is stance held by the people who support steroid usage. "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
Unregistered(d)	can steroids contribute to suicide?	#34	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/17/07 08:14:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	www.ingentaconnect.com/co...4/00419920 "Eight medicolegally examined cases of suicide, in 21- to 33-year-old males, with a history of current or discontinued use of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are described, five of which were approached by means of systematic interviews with survivors. Five suicides were committed during current use of AAS, and two following 2 and 6 months of AAS withdrawal. In one case it was unclear whether the suicide was committed during current use or after recent discontinuation. In five cases family members had noted depressive symptoms associated with AAS withdrawal. After prolonged use, four persons had developed depressive syndromes. Two subjects exhibited hypomania-like symptoms during the time immediately preceding the suicide. Four subjects had recently committed acts of violence while using AAS. In some cases these acts exacerbated the subjects' problems in personal relationships or at work, which in turn seem to have precipitated the suicides. Only one of them had experienced suicidal ideation before starting to use AAS. In all cases examined by psychological autopsy, risk factors of suicidality likely to be independent of the use of AAS were present. In conclusion, this study presents data suggesting that psychiatric symptoms and conflicts resulting from long-term use of AAS may contribute to completed suicide in certain predisposed individuals."
mcguppy	Re: can steroids contribute to suicide?	#35	[-]
Posts: 550 (07/17/07 12:13:22) Hardcase Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Talking about roid rage made me think of those females who get PMS rage. 1)Garland of Chaos is finally defeated 2)The Emperor of Pandaemonium is finally defeated 3)I would have tried to deafeat it but it was in Japanese
mcguppy	Re: can steroids contribute to suicide?	#36	[-]
Posts: 550 (07/17/07 17:13:06) Hardcase Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You say that taking roids gives somebody an unfair advantage over somebody that doesn't. But don't we typically accept that in life? If you follow that mantra then you'd have to say that getting a college education gives that person an unfair advantage over somebody with just a high school/GED diploma. 1)Garland of Chaos is finally defeated 2)The Emperor of Pandaemonium is finally defeated 3)I would have tried to deafeat it but it was in Japanese
MorgaineA77	Re: can steroids contribute to suicide?	#37	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/17/07 17:17:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A college education is not known for commonly causing physical and psychological problems. Steriods are. I might have heard stupider non-examples, I will try to remember when. "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
mcguppy	Re: can steroids contribute to suicide?	#38	[-]
Posts: 550 (07/17/07 17:24:56) Hardcase Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So this is you giving an answer to your point B when I raised a question about Point A. But one of your points was that because they get an unfair advantage then it hurts the others without the advantage. I was just showing you the full spectrum of possibilities. So do you think a college education gives somebody an advantage over somebody who doesn't? 1)Garland of Chaos is finally defeated 2)The Emperor of Pandaemonium is finally defeated 3)I would have tried to deafeat it but it was in Japanese
Unregistered(d)	steriods	#39	[-]
Posts: 0 (07/17/07 17:26:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, but to whoever wrote "If everyone can take it, how can it be cheating?" The problem is that it is bad for the body and it artificially alters the competitors. Might as well give them bionic shoes or limbs. Or just get rid of the humans altogether and use remote control NASCAR vehicles but with DONK features.
MorgaineA77	Re: can steroids contribute to suicide?	#40	[-]
Posts: 63 (07/17/07 17:30:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* But one of your points was that because they get an unfair advantage then it hurts the others without the advantage. I was just showing you the full spectrum of possibilities. So do you think a college education gives somebody an advantage over somebody who doesn't? You get the Gold for fallacies of logic. However, most people understand that telling someone to get a college education in order to compete is not on the same specturm as telling them to take dangerous drugs to compete. You either know that and are being disengenuous or you are really impaired, intellectually. "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung

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